Direct Mail

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TRANSCRIPT:
Avish: Our next topic is direct mail and one of our earlier sections, we talked about direct mail still being useful if you have a good list. So what are your thoughts about direct mail in general as an advertising media for seminar?

Fred: I think it’s still something that everyone out there, if you are attempting to do seminar should at least put your toe in the water and see whether or not it works for you. Again, I’m not making any guarantees and I’m not certain of what will happen, but it is very possible that direct mail work well for you because it does for some people. So again, it’s worth a test.

Avish: Okay. Cool. So let’s say that you decided to go direct mail. You put together your direct mail piece and as so many things we’ve talked about, the headline again is going to be the most important part?

Fred: Yeah, it is and I mean, one of the things that we first start to talk about is really two types of direct mail pieces that I would suggest. One of the postcard mailer and the other is a big and a 11 ½ by 17 folded over twice, which ends up being, let’s say if we fold that twice, help me Avish, you have better skills or idea, 11 by 17 fold it down twice would be once to that size. I’m not sure exactly what I comes out to, but I think its five and a half by eight and a half or something like that when its folded down and if you do that you got this thing and you know, everybody gets them the mail still from someone where they have taken an 11 by 17 sheet of paper and folded over twice and then put a little tab on it and then you’re doing it that way.

So those are really just to start off. Those are the two different types of direct mail pieces we should discuss. And all of the elements we’re going to talk about are applicable both.

Avish: Okay, sounds good. So, any additional tips on the headline, I’m assuming that’s the one that is going get people to pay attention to it?

Fred: Yeah. Again, the goal of this piece. I mean, if you’re sending a postcard, the nice thing about it is, they don’t have to open anything. So the one thing I want to remind people of is don’t put something in an envelope then you have to get them to open it. So either the 11 by 17 folded-over-twice or a postcard requires no opening. So the first thing they’re going to see when they take a look at that piece, is what is the headline. And that headline, the goal of the headline is to get them read the rest of the ad. It’s going to make an officially big promise of bold guarantees, something like that, you know, “Lose 21 pounds in the next 32 days guaranteed or your money back” something that will want to make me read the rest of it.

Avish: Okay. And we talked a lot about headlines already. So, let’s say you got their attention, the next thing is writing the copy and the text it goes in the piece. So how do you prove that or is it worth hiring someone else to do it.

Fred: Okay. So your question is about copy other than the headline, is that right?
Avish: Correct.

Fred: Okay. So you really do have two choices. Either you can do it yourself or you can get somebody write it for you. Now, if you are going to get somebody who’s a qualified long-serving professional copywriter, it’s going to cost a lot of money. So what I would encourage you to do is to basically do it yourself and the way to best do it yourself is to look at the sites that you know are successful and in this case again, go back to the Fredinfobootcamp.com site to at least get an idea because if I were to send out a direct mail piece for the Fredinfobootcamp.com site, I would model it a lot on what I did on the website knowing that website is successful.

But in order to learn about writing copy, you may want to pick up Bob Bly’s which is the copywriter’s handbook and if you pick that up, you notice it’s dedicated to me, thank you very much Bob. And picking up the copywriter’s handbook, it will allow you to get some basic ideas about how to do a direct mail piece for seminars.

Avish: Okay. Great. So that is going to be overall in general on the copy. I don’t know a lot of different sections in a direct mail piece. So let’s just go through them one at a time, you can give us your thoughts very quickly on them. So first up is information about seminar leader. What is that?

Fred: Well, that is basically the buyer for you as the seminar leader and you got to make sure that you highlight – often times people tends to highlight their education or work background. And basically you got to think in terms of what elements of my background make me the person that can give this individual who is considering coming to my event a reason for wanting to be here. Just like we said in the introduction of this program, I said that I’ve done, you know, X number of seminars and I’ve never lost money on a seminar. I’ve written the book that is number in the Amazon in the category. All of those things are the kinds of elements that you want to include when talking about the seminar leader.

Avish: Alright, good. So the next up is, previous attendees. What do you mean by that?

Fred: Well. “Previous attendees” is basically where I put the testimonials and what they said. So there, I take quotes from six, eight, ten, how much ever space I have and put the best quotes I can find the most specific, the most targeted, the most results-oriented quotations I can find and put them there and put their names. Now again, try and get people to get people to give their full names and their location because if not, they don’t look credible, it’s AC from Omaha. It’s less credible than all this Alice Wallace from Omaha, Nebraska and here’s his or her phone number.

Avish: Now let’s say, you are relatively new and you have not done a seminar yet, can you use a testimonial that’s about something else you’ve done. Obviously not to lie, but someone would talk about what a great, something else you did?

Fred: Yeah. Well. If you have changed the heading somewhat, that’s very possible. So you couldn’t say comment from previous attendees, but you could say what other people are saying about Avish or what other people are saying about Fred. Then that leaves it open for you to give testimonials that aren’t based on that specific seminar, but on you and your work in general.

Avish: Okay. I got. That makes a lot of sense. What about a guarantee? Should you have it and what should it be like?

Fred: The answer is yes. Without a great guarantee. I mean, I just saw something the other day where I was hesitant to buy it because nowhere on the site did I see anything about the guarantee which makes things suspicious. Now again, it’s probably not a good idea. It used to offer big long lifetime type guarantees and that not necessary true, here. I think that what you need to do is say to people, you know, give them a good strong guarantee. Something like anywhere 90 days, even a year guarantee. If 366, days from the time you take this event and you don’t feel you made more than double your money back, feel free to ask you money back and I’ll give you a prompt refund.

Avish: Okay. Now I know a lot of people listening to this are going to be very afraid that they’ll lose their shirts if they offer a strong guarantee, what are your thoughts on that?

Fred: Well, they won’t if they do two things. Number one, if they over deliver on what they promised at the event and give a great seminar. They won’t lose money. Number two is, the other thing that people all concerned about with guarantees can be alleviated by telling you this in the research, everything else being equal. A great guarantee will increase your number of people who will attend your seminar by greater than the amount of people who will request a refund.

Avish: So you don’t think that people will just take advantage of the guarantee even if they were satisfied, just because they know they can get the money back since its 100% guaranteed.

Fred: Some will, most will not because most people out there are honest. Although there are always few sleaze bags.

Avish: Okay. So overall, even a few people will take advantage of you, the research shows that your increase income will outweigh the loss in guarantee refunds?

Fred: Yes, that’s correct.

Avish: Okay. And obviously, you want to put your seminar fee somewhere on there?

Fred: Yeah. You got to put what’s going to cost and it’s amazing. I sometimes, I go through a brochure on a seminar and they leave out one of this seemingly “minor points.” Well certainly this one is not. What’s the fee? Well, how much do I have to pay, preregistration or before certain date, how much do I have to pay after etc, etc, etc.

Avish: And do you think some people do that as tactic because they didn’t want you to see the fee until go online and get to the registration page?

Fred: Yes, perhaps, but I just sort of feel like, what’s going on when people do that so I wouldn’t recommend anyone do that although I do admit, it’s probably a tactic for some people trying to use although I don’t know how successfully.

Avish: Okay. What about if you can’t attend section?

Fred: Yeah. I mean, this is something that a lot of people disagree on and I can see why. Here’s I came down, first of, the options are; if you can’t attend section and people will tend not to attend the live event, if they’re on the board, they may just buy the materials that are the recordings of it, but I thinks it’s always a good idea to allow, to give them reasons why they shouldn’t attend in person and all the various benefits like networking and pressing the flash with the seminar leader, etc, etc, etc, but I would also give people the option to order the materials because we all have busy lives and just the fact that I’m giving on the Saturday between 10 and 4 might be the time that your kid has a little league game.

Avish: Okay, it makes sense, it makes sense. So now, talk about some of the sections here and if you are doing the mailing type brochure versus the postcard card, are you going to have all the elements in there?

Fred: Yes, definitely.

Avish: Okay. And what is the – we talk a little bit about the goal, what’s the goal of the postcard as direct mail piece versus the kind of a multi-page or the folded brochure?

Fred: Yeah, the folded brochure this days and the postcard really have the same thing although sometimes the longer mailer will try and get people to actually buy on the spot. Certainly the post card, it will be tough to get people on the spot. More of the importance in the point of the postcard is to get people to go and visit a site that would then sell them on coming to the event. So if I were trying to promote the Fred Info Boot Camp with a postcard, I would send that out with some very, very compelling copy but I wouldn’t make it very detailed. I will just, my whole point of that postcard would be to get them to go to Fredinfobootcamp.com and let the site sell them.

Avish: Okay. I got it. What about magazines and sending like direct mail almost magazine, booklets or brochures?

Fred: They’re called Magalog these days and those kinds of brochures sent in that magazine-looking fashion can work fairly well. Again, this is something that usually requires a pretty big budget so it’s not for the person just starting out, but it might be something to consider after you got things going.

Avish: Okay and what kind of time horizon. How far in advance you need to plan to do direct mail campaign?

Fred: If you’re doing a direct mail campaign, it really depends on two factors. Number one, the cost of the seminar. Well three things; the cost of the seminar, the length of the seminar, and the location. So if it’s an expensive seminar, it is located in a place where most people aren’t from and most people are going to be flying in and if its, its timing is such – you want to obviously anything that Involves, people will have to plan lot more the longer the lead time you need to do. So if you are promoting a local seminar let’s say, I’m living in the Las Vegas area, if I were promoting a local Las Vegas seminar via direct mail and only the locales, I could use a three-week window, sending it out three weeks beforehand. However if I’m trying to get people go come from outside my State and maybe even outside the United States, I might leave anywhere from 10 to 12 weeks to promote that and I might do more than one mail, but my first mailer might go out 10-12 weeks in advance.

Avish: Okay and that time discussion is true for pretty much any type of marketing effort, correct? Not just?

Fred: Yes, absolutely.

Avish: Okay. Is it preferable to use direct mail if you’re doing series of seminars versus as one shot; is there any advantage to that?

Fred: Well, the thing about it is you have to again figure out via testing whether multiple drops of the same piece are profitable. Often times, I remember one seminar that was promoted where they dropped the set of mailers and that is very profitable. They dropped the second exact mailer to the same list and it was marginally profitable. They dropped the third one and they breakeven and so just did three mailers every time because they were all at least break even in terms of profitably so it was no problem to get more people there because if you think about of it, even if you’re breakeven on the frontend then people at the event and they have the ability to buy additional products and services and coaching and consulting business.

Avish: Okay, I got it. Now, you find that even if don’t get that’s many registrations, as long as you’re breaking even, have you found that the direct mail piece will generate consulting business even when people who don’t attend the seminar?

Fred: It’s amazing. It happens all the time. You send out a brochure trying to promote a seminar and people call you up and say, hey I can’t come to seminar but can you consult with me on this topic. It happened to me repeatedly in the self-storage industry.

Avish: Okay. It is worth testing, but as long as you can breakeven, it might be worth doing direct mail for the additional business that can bring in?

Fred: Absolutely.

Avish: Okay. Now how about, we talked a little bit about this pretty quickly, but what about joint venturing in the direct mail promotions?

Fred: Yeah and I think that anybody, if you feel that somebody has a list that has and if you really know the type of people that are on that list, if you should be willing to pay for the mailer. If they will split the registration dollars with you if it’s the right targeted people. In most cases, that will make a lot of sense, but again, don’t go for somebody that has a list of hundred thousand and you think it’s the right people. I wouldn’t do a deal to mail a hundred thousand. I will say, let me do a quick test on five thousand and see how that works out and if it does work out then let’s proceed.

Avish: Okay and to approach those people, you call or email them and say?

Fred: Yeah, calling or emailing them and making sure that you have an offering, a seminar that really is a value to their list so it seems more if it’s not just for you but it’s to help their people as well.

Avish: Okay. What do you mean about direct mail campaigns when you talked about one shot versus double or trouble shot? About dropping?

Fred: Yeah, yeah. We talked about it a little bit earlier. So let’s say for example you had a seminar, you dropped, meaning one set of brochures one time just six weeks before the event and you didn’t do anything else, that’s a one-shot promotion. A two-shot is you dropped the mailer on the eight weeks before and then again six week before and then triple-shot and then just add, it’s sort of like eight weeks, six week and four weeks.

Avish: Okay. And I know sometimes when it comes to direct mail pieces, you done like a free 90-minutes sale pitch, what is that and why would I consider doing it?

Fred: Well, again, this one of those things that you see people in real states feel to do all the time. They’re trying to get people to attend a 90-minute free seminar because then they’re going to sell them on the weekend even that’s coming up three weeks from now in their town and this is frequently used because basically the 90 minutes is just a sales pitch appearing-like content or with the disguise of content that basically just teases people into thinking they need to take the full program, which often times they might to set intent.

Avish: Okay. So the 90 minutes sales page is a direct mail to drive people to an event that’s free, in hopes you will sell them on something else?

Fred: Yeah and often sometimes when you see those 90 minutes sales pitch is they’re usually promoted either by radio or by TV, very seldom by direct mail.

Avish: Okay. Would you recommend that people pursue that avenue or is that a little thing to test or?

Fred: Well I mean, again, it depends on the size of your budget but in general, I think that the direct mail pieces, these days, you should user-test very carefully because you can lost a lot of money because postage rates have gone up although direct mail rates response rates have gone down in terms they are a lie given that we have email, however that all depends. So it depends on the size of your budget, but again, it’s worth testing small first and seeing the results.

Avish: Okay and funding on direct mail is there is this idea of doing a direct mail campaign where you’re not trying to drive people to preregistration, it just an announcement that says come that day and sign up?

Fred: Yeah. It’s sort of come and get it seminar.

Avish: Yeah and what is that all about?

Fred: Well, again, that’s where. If you think about it, many times when you’re promoting a seminar, after you decided to go ahead and launch an advertising campaign, your money is basically at some cost. The only thing that might be variable is you might be able to save a few dollars. Who knows the hotel probably won’t let you out of the room space. The advertising, once it’s gone, it’s gone. So there’s a lot, there are a very few additional cost that are entailed by actually going ahead and doing the seminar. So often times, the promoter will say, who cares about the registration.

Let’s just say, “Hey we’re doing the seminar, it’s the 12th this Saturday and if you don’t show up, hey too bad, we’re going to do it anyway.” So its not one of things where people can even call and say, are you sure, this is going to happen you are going cancel it. Well the idea is come and get it kind of seminar because you’ve already blown your whole wad on the advertising and you’re hotel room that you probably reserved for the space has already gone so you might as well go and do it no matter how many people show up.

Avish: Okay. Now that does this create a whole, I mean, does this create a cash flow problem, why would you chose its option over sending people do a preregistration page?

Fred: Well. There is a certain amount of enthusiasm and excitement and anticipation that can be built by doing a common-get-it-type seminar because people and what you do in a situation like that, you say, only the first 200 people will be allowed in the doors. After that, we’re closing the doors and we may not be doing the seminar ever again. Well you might not be doing the seminar ever again, because it didn’t work, but it is also a good line to get people to say, “Hey well this person is so confident, there is no preregistration, all we have to do to catch to this event is come there.” And by the way, when I have seen this done, I’ve seen this done where only 10 or 12 people showed up, but two people were there at like the crack of dawn thinking that everybody else thought like them that it might be sold out.

Avish: Okay, you use this to create a lot of buzz and get some excitement and go for it?

Fred: You got it.

Avish: Okay. Anything else? Any final words on direct mail?

Fred: No that’s a lot of information. I hope people will follow my advice because boy, you can do it wrong and you can do it right. It’s better to do it right because you won’t lose much money.

Avish: Absolutely.